Disordered: Anxiety Help
Disordered: Anxiety Help
Anxiety Recovery PROCESS vs CONTENT (Episode 162)
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It's your heart. Or the dizziness. Or the one thought you can't get to leave you alone. If you could just solve that specific thing, you'd finally be okay. This week we push back on that.
The subject of your fear, the heartbeat, the health scare, the intrusive thought, the situation you're avoiding, is the content. What's actually running underneath it, the same threat response, the same doubt, the same physical symptoms no matter what story your brain attaches them to this week, is the process. Chase the content and it just moves. Solve one fear and another takes its place, because you were never fighting the fear itself. We also get into the exception clause, the "yeah, but what about" that convinces you your specific situation is somehow different from every other anxious thought you've ever had, and why treating it that way only teaches your brain the opposite of what you're trying to teach it.
None of this means the content doesn't matter. Your health matters. Your relationships matter. That's exactly why it's so easy to get pulled into trying to fix it directly instead of doing the harder, less obvious work underneath. Plus, listener updates from the community:
* a mom who kept walking with her kids through a wave of panic in the heat
* someone who worked a full shift through dizziness instead of stopping to check it
* a listener who took a long-planned trip anyway, only to get a Meniere's diagnosis right after, and found she could hold both the diagnosis and the proof that she'd handled the trip.
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Want to talk about this episode, interact with us, and communicate with others that are sharing your experience? We're hanging out in the Disordered Community Space
https://disordered.fm/community
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The Disordered Guide to Health Anxiety is available now:
https://www.disordered.fm/the-disordered-guide-to-health-anxiety/
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Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out Worry and Rumination Explained, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew.
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Got questions or did it anyways to share? Send us an email or voicemail on our website.
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Disclaimer: Disordered is not therapy or a replacement for therapy. Listening to Disordered does not create a therapeutic relationship between you and the hosts or guests of the podcast. Information here is provided for psychoeducational purposes. As always, please consult your mental health and/or medical care providers. If you are having a mental health crisis, always reach out immediately for in-person help.
So the content of your anxiety is is the subject. People with anxiety disorders get fooled into thinking that they have to solve the content.
SPEAKER_01The process is the threat response, the doubt response, and all the physiological symptoms that come with it, and the thoughts, and whatever the threat response is to you. I don't like that how that makes me feel. I feel unsafe, I feel untethered, and I feel doubtful. But this has happened over and over and again.
SPEAKER_00Now you can say, Yeah, I know I'm not gonna go crazy, but it still feels like I'm gonna, and you've sort of tipped in. It still doesn't make it easy to do process focus. You're still gonna get sucked into trying to solve the content, but that will tell you that you sort of understand now.
SPEAKER_01Suddenly the content becomes special. There is no real special content, it's the process. And the process is always I'm shocked, I give it my attention, and I resist how I feel.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I'm going to focus on the process here, and that's what created it anyway.
SPEAKER_01Welcome to Disordered. This is episode 162, entitled Process versus Content. I'm Joshua Fletcher, also known as Anxiety Josh, and I'm a psychotherapist based in the UK, specializing in anxiety and anxiety disorders, author of several books, including the latest one, same time next week, and uh host of another podcast called The Panic Pod, which you can find on YouTube. Uh, my favorite time of the week is to record disordered episodes with my wonderful and esteemed co-host, whose name is I'm esteemed.
SPEAKER_00I love it. Uh, I'm Drew Linsolata, the other half of Disordered. I'm also an anxiety therapist practicing in New York, uh, former sufferer of the things we talk about in this podcast, author, including co-author of the Disordered Guide to Health Anxiety, if you want to check that out. And uh, yeah, also one of my favorite times of the week is when we sit and chill and we always have a studio audience and our little community app. Watch us record, comment in real time, and it's it's a good time. So, process versus content today.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, I've been asked uh where I'm broadcasting from this week. I'm back in Manchester now. Thank you. Uh, and I was really happy to be home. Um, process versus content. What do we mean by that, Drew? What are we on about? I have anxiety, I have uh intrusive thoughts, I have panic attacks, I'm afraid of how I feel. I'm in a sensitized state, I don't know how to get out of it. What the hell are you talking about, process versus content?
SPEAKER_00Well, well, talk first about the content, and then I want to hear your take on process. So the content of your anxiety is the subject, if you will. Like, oh, you know, I get really scared of my heartbeat, or I'm scared of the dizzy feeling, or the jelly legs, or the DPDR, or or if you have intrusive thoughts or health anxiety, I'm fixated right now on cancer, or I'm fixated on this disease, or if you have OCD, it's this particular what about a thought that I might not love my partner? That's the content, right? The the subject matter, if you will. And people with anxiety disorders get fooled into thinking that they have to solve the content. But really, we don't care about the content, which sounds uncaring. It's not uncaring on a human level, but we don't focus on the content. And if you've been struggling for a long time and trying to figure out the content, you may have discovered that it's not really working for you, or that content is hopping right from topic to topic over time. And uh then it becomes really difficult once you solve one. That's why we don't talk about symptoms, or we don't have tips for specific intrusive thoughts. Because if you try to solve one thought or one fear or one symptom, another one just pops up and takes its place. So we care about the process. What do you think the process is that we care about?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I agree. The process is is is the threat response, the doubt response, and all the physiological symptoms that come with it and the thoughts and whatever the threat response is to you. So your brain, uh your anxiety will bring your attention to threat because it is a threat response. And it's usually uh are we teaching the brain that this threat is real and thanking the threat response for firing off all day, every day? Or is it uh all right, okay, that's I don't like that how that makes me feel. I feel unsafe, I feel untethered, um, and I feel doubtful. But this has happened over and over and again. I need to turn off this misfiring threat response. Um, and I think often that's kind of you're looking at the process, not the content. However, I would argue, and it's really important, this is why we love talking about psychoeducation and stuff like that. If you don't know enough psychoeducation about your anxiety, about your anxiety disorders, it's very difficult to then suddenly go, well, the process, you know, the content doesn't matter. Yeah. No, when you learn, when you learn, and if you learn, uh listen to many of these podcasts, and you learn about how anxiety functions in the cycle of an anxiety disorder, and you have clued up enough, then the next step is to take the bold leap of, no, I'm looking at this process to deal with. Notice how I said process though. I like that.
SPEAKER_00Process. Where's my where's my eagle sound? P-R-A-H process.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and uh when you process uh rather than um, you know, all the what ifs, because the what-ifs always change. Everyone with anxiety knows that the what ifs always change. Yeah. Oh, last few months ago it was this. Then I'm worried about, you know, have I poisoned my family? Now I'm worried about panic attacks. Now I'm worried that my boss hates me. Now I'm worried that um something's gonna happen. Now I'm worried there's carbon monoxide in the apartment. Now I'm worried my heart is gonna explode and it's got a leaky valve. Now I'm worried. That same mechanism, I always have to call it a mechanism. We're feeding the doubt mechanism with fuel, we're not starving it of fuel with our behavior. Yeah. Oh, there it is. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
SPEAKER_00Bring it. Come on, I'm waiting.
unknownShh.
SPEAKER_00It shuts it down. It like it claims I gotta put that in. I really do have to put it in the soundboard so we can play it on a regular basis. I think you made an excellent point. In the beginning, if if you're new and you just like you just started having this anxiety experience and you sort of stumbled upon disorder, and this is the first episode you're listening to, uh, with the odds, but it could be, like you really care about the content. I know I did, I'm sure you did too. I was convinced for a very long time that the physical manifestation of my anxiety disorder was something physical. I really cared about my heart. The content was heart focused, stroke, heart attack, aneurysm, that sort of stuff. And so I really cared about that. And you're right, I needed to be told, and unfortunately, I didn't have access to a lot of psychoeducation. But that's when you no, no, no, it's okay, your body's gonna do this, that we talk about fight or flight and adrenaline and cortisol and all that stuff. And like then you learn, like, oh, okay, well, I guess I have to shift gears. When you start to recognize that, oh yeah, you know what, you know, I think the the tipping point is, or when you know you've tipped into process as a process as opposed to content mechanism, uh, is when you start to say things like, I know it's not a heart attack, yet I still can't seem to then you know, like, ah, now you can say, Yeah, I know I'm not gonna go crazy, but it still feels like I'm gonna then you sort of tipped in. It still doesn't make it easy to do process focus. You're still gonna get sucked into trying to solve the content, but that will tell you that you sort of understand now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but it's the three words of every anxiety disorder, just in case.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, just in case. Or but what about? You know, there's the exception thing too.
SPEAKER_01Like, well, yeah, but what about just in case, but what about, just in case, but what about? Yeah. And I think that's really um You you often know, and again, psychoeducation will tell you, well, how do I know it's an anxiety disorder, not a real thing? Well, well, look, it's just the same one, the same one. It's trying to convince you each time. Yeah. Um, before we talk more about this, though, let's read something from our wonderful community. Would you like to go first, Drew, or would you like me to read something?
SPEAKER_00Um, you know what? I got one queued up, which is pretty good. This is a did it anyway from don't know where, but this person did not give us permission to use her name, so we won't. Uh, and she writes, lately I have an immense I I have had a lot of external stressors, and as a natural result, my stress jug has overfilled, and I've been a bit sensitized. Today I went for a walk and it was so darn hot. I had my three kids with me, and despite feeling fear and having all sorts of physical symptoms to go with it, like chest tightness, sweating, feeling out of breath, etc., I kept on walking and stayed engaged with my kids the whole time. I didn't sprint home. I completed the planned route. Uh it was a bit of an exposure too as I left my cell phone at home, which has always been a safety behavior for me. I'm writing this mostly to give myself some credit as I often forget how far I've come and how capable I am. I struggle with not giving myself the credit and getting disappointed and frustrated in myself that I still experience anxiety despite years of recovery-oriented work. So I write this to remind myself I am capable and I can handle difficult emotions. Woohoo. That rocks.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well done. I love that. And don't let that inner Craig the Critic take over. Oh God, he's always there.
SPEAKER_00It's Craig the Critic.
SPEAKER_01But yeah. Yeah, uh, well done. And I love that. As a reminder, I can experience difficult emotions. I love that. Yeah. And um, yeah, that's that's really, really good. And you were looking at the the process. That's right.
SPEAKER_00Not the content. The content was heart, sweating, all the things, like heat, heat stroke. No, the process was I'm just scared, but I I can handle this.
SPEAKER_01Do you want another one from all the way from Kentucky?
SPEAKER_00Oh, sure. Love Kentucky. I love Kentucky.
SPEAKER_01Okay, here we go. Uh, this is from Megan from Kentucky. Uh wanted to share a success story in the making. As of right now, I'm at work feeling dizzy. Dizziness is my biggest anxiety trigger, which then causes more dizziness when the adrenaline rushes through my body. It is a vicious cycle, but one I am learning to accept. I have been doing life, even when anxious, and not stopping to check the what could it be checklist I have in my head. It is not pleasant, especially when I'm away from home and on the computer all day, but it is not going to stop me from living life. So here I am, till the end of my shift, feeling and doing and doing and feeling. Thanks, guys. That's from Megan.
SPEAKER_00Oh, it's so great.
SPEAKER_01Very good. Encapsulates what we're talking about today. Yeah, but but dizziness, that's the rule, that's the special rule. If you go back to a lot of our old episodes of disordered, anxiety will convince you that your specific doubt is special. And if you've got OCD, it will also weaponize emotions like guilt to make you feel like it's special and the exception. Yeah, but I'm a parent. Yeah, but I'm that's my marriage. Yeah, but they're my kids. Yeah, but a bridge is a bridge. Yeah, but that's a real disease. Yeah, but and that's what happens. Suddenly the content becomes special. There is no real special content. Um it's the it's the process. And the process is always I'm shocked, I give it my attention, and I resist how I feel. S-A-R, shock, attention, resistance. Um, the name of Drew and mine's new prog rock band.
SPEAKER_00Oh, can I just do like 11 and a half minute guitar, just free improvisation guitar solos? That's prog rock, right?
unknownI think it is.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, with all the middle-aged dads just like nodding on and everyone else just wants to go home.
SPEAKER_00That's exactly right. You know, I might suggest I think what's interesting is, and by the way, that whole uh I guess it's a plug for Kim more than me. I was on Kim's podcast, Your Anxiety Toolkit, a couple of weeks ago, and we talked about the exception clause, which is that, you know, not yeah, but what about? It's the but what about? That's the content focused. Yeah, but yeah, but any tips for when you're thinking about this, but any tips for when you have to go to work with it, but any tips for when you're in school, but any tips for when you're with your kids, like uh there's always the thing that scares you the most gets carved out as special content. But I might suggest that anytime somebody sends us an audio or written did it anyway, or we see it in our community, people posting their wins, it's because they've shifted, at least in that experience, to process, process. Like they they were they found the reason, the willingness, the courage to say, well, the content is still scaring the heck out of me right now, which it definitely is, there's no doubt about that. Like the fear of passing out is too strong. Yeah, very scary, but like So the content of your anxiety is is the subject. People with anxiety disorders get fooled into thinking that they have to solve the content.
SPEAKER_01The process is the threat response, the doubt response, and all the physiological symptoms that come with it, and the thoughts, and whatever the threat response is to you. I don't like that how that makes me feel. I feel unsafe, I feel untethered, and I feel doubtful. But this has happened over and over and again.
SPEAKER_00Now you can say, Yeah, I know I'm not gonna go crazy, but it still feels like I'm gonna, and you sort of tipped in. It still doesn't make it easy to do process focus. You're still gonna get sucked into trying to solve the content, but that will tell you that you sort of understand now.
SPEAKER_01Suddenly the content becomes special. There is no real special content, it's the process, and the process is always I'm shocked, I give it my attention, and I resist how I feel.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I'm going to focus on the process here, and that's what created it anyway.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. And I'll bring attention back to the fact that this is why I call it a mechanism. So when I particularly when working with pure O stuff like that, uh these are the people like you said, Drew, but what about but what about in this? But what about this specific situation? But what about this symptom? What about what's the universal theme of all these questions? Doubt. Yeah. And so I call it the doubt mechanism. Oh, okay. And immediately zooming out. If you're asking, but what about this? And you've been fixating on something, zoom out and see it as a mechanism, like a little old engine, you know, and it's almost chugging out, it's dying out. If you don't put fuel in that engine, it will calm down, you know. But when you start doing what the doubt mechanism wants you to do, which is stop what you're doing, stop living your life, stop living the golden rules, go inwards, focus on getting 100% certainty, which you can't get, completely divert from non-anxious you and make this doubt the most important thing in the room, you're picking up a can of gas or petrol, if you're from the UK, and you pour it straight into the mechanism and it keeps chugging away. Yeah. And you're like, well, okay, well, logic says the more I focus on problem solving and pouring energy into it, I'll solve this energy uh this issue faster. Which, yes, for everyday stuff, usually works. But with the doubt mechanism, this is why it makes anxiety disorders so annoying and so pop uh common, is that we keep pouring attention and effort, which is picking up petrol and gas and pouring it into an engine that will die out if you leave it alone. Yeah, yeah, but this one is special, and and yeah, it's literally a doubt response, you know. And but you've got to learn that zooming out, seeing things metacognitively, and being like, no, that's my doubt mechanism here. Do I fuel it or do I let it choke out and leave? I'm not gonna try and cut it out now. I'm just gonna let it choke out of one of over a lack of its own fuel. Yeah, does that make sense?
SPEAKER_00It may oh it makes perfect sense. And right now there's like four therapists listening that love ICBT that are like, yeah, you go, Josh. Like in the ICBT, you know, sort of conceptualization of OCD, it has nothing to do with uncertainty, it has to do with obsessional doubt. And I don't disagree with that. That's a good way to look at it. The doubt is strong. And I don't think it's just OCD, it's everything. You're right. But I I oh I have this doubt that it's gonna be okay. So yeah, and you're right. And it seems like the right thing to do to respond to it, but it's never the right thing to do. Never. It it's so paradoxical. You know, but it's important to point out that while we might be saying don't get stuck on content, we're not denying that the content is important. You know, your health is in fact important. Everybody would agree that our health is important. Everybody agrees that your relationship is important, your family is important, your job is important, like your happiness is important. It's not that uh the content is uh irrelevant, but it's it is important, but don't let the fact that this is an important thing in my life trick you into thinking that that's what you have to fix because it's still not correct. And I think that's what creates the doubt. If if the fear was not focused on something you cared about, you wouldn't need the doubt wouldn't matter. Like, oh but what if I'm a terrible soccer, football player, whatever for whatever you call it? What if I'm a terrible soccer player? I don't really care if I am, I know I am. So like that what if doesn't create any sort of urgency in me, so I don't need to solve it. I just like yeah, whatever. Uh anyway. Um one of the things I thought would be interesting to do really quickly is if I look at some of the voicemails that people have sent us, uh we can look at these different like we have, but what about when you're dry heaving? But what about when the panic attacks start happening in a different place? But what about when it's nausea? But what about what I'm just scrolling really quickly through our voicemail, and you could see, like, yeah, but what about now? I have a thought about there's one about uh what if I never get happy again? What if I never like so the questions are all content-based and they're all over the place, but and there's infinite what ifs a hundred.
SPEAKER_01Just like there's infinite themes of OCD, like it it's it's the doubt machine that chugs on it, and it's the doubt machine that is the universal theme that links all of those um together. Also, a very important point if you treat your what if as special, you are then making it unachievable. Yeah, but what about the special anxiety when I'm at the barbershop? Well, then you're then teaching the brain that anxiety in the barbershop is different from anxiety at home and therefore even more threatening because you have to change your behavior and find something different to stop this special anxiety at the hospital, at your school, your kids' school play, at the uh whatever. So when you look for a specific tool for a situation that needs to be treated the same, you're actually creating a message to your brain a threat response that this threat is extra special. Yeah, and that's why I it's so good to not have particular tools for these things, you know, and um and when looking back, it makes sense. Oh, yeah, well, you know, I had to go to the supermarket, so I did my deep breathing in there, but the anxiety actually when I'm driving is totally different. I actually have to have an ice pack on my on my neck, and then actually when I'm at home and I'm ruminating on that, what if? Because I've got OCD. No, I use my vagal stimulation device and this certain thing because that worry requires a different tool. And then I actually have dry heaving. And what if I'm drive heaving in front of some people? It's embarrassing. So I need to do my own certain techniques there. Uh, and then you start to show and teach the brain that you know anxiety is a threat because it is many-faced and a metamorphosizing monster that you have to have different weapons to attack. No, it's the old chugging doubt machine.
SPEAKER_00Well, when your brain wants to make a prediction of what's coming next, the cool thing about your brain is it doesn't have to obey the laws of reality. It could just make up anything, right? It doesn't it doesn't matter. Like I should hit the button, but I won't. Like your brain can make up anything it wants at any given time. You are stuck locked into the laws of physics and reality, but your brain can make up anything it wants. It doesn't matter. What if you never feel happy again and you're just anxious for the entire rest of your life? Like it'll tell a story that everybody would be like, What are you talking about? That is such a catastrophic distortion, but your brain is like, Yeah, but what if that happens? It could happen, right? Like it can make up anything it wants or Your attention. Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_01So if you're if you're anxious and the doubt machine's going, what if you're never happy again?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then you stop and compulsively just stare, like, Am I happier? Am I happier? Am I happier? Is it not coming true? You ain't gonna feel happy doing that. Yeah, that's exactly right. You're gonna feel happy by ignoring the doubt machine and going towards stuff like your values and what you enjoy. Yeah, then you're gonna more likely to feel happy. But then people who get trapped in that loop is that they stop, they ruminate, they compulse, they seek reassurance. That doesn't make anyone happy. Yeah, you know, you'll notice you're happy when you're not making anxiety the most important thing in the room. And you don't know, you're out bowling with your friends or something, and you realize, oh, well, I actually feel quite nice because all feelings are transient and all they will pass, you know, just allow them.
SPEAKER_00And allowed. When you get stuck on content, the actual fear, the specific thought, you the the way you start to respond to that, you start to throw control and avoidance strategies at it. So you know you're still focused on trying to fix the content of your anxiety when your life is getting more and more ritualized, rigid, restricted, smaller, avoidant, like, oh yeah, because I'm trying to fix the content. You know, oh, if I can't have this, I can't go to that place because when I see that, I have specific thoughts, so I don't go there anymore. Like, or if I go there, I panic, or if I watch this show, or if my husband talks about this thing, I get triggered. So I can't talk about that anymore. Like, you know, when you're content focused, when your life is getting smaller and smaller and smaller in many instances. Somebody in the in the live chat just said, I've never doubted it's anything but anxiety, but I have yet to accept these emotions. So I might say, There's doubt. I I I doubt that I can handle this. I I can't handle I the my emotions are too much for me, so I don't I doubt my capability. So I try to run from them or extinguish them. Yeah. Control. Yeah, control attempts.
SPEAKER_01Let's have a dinner anyway.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I've got one. Ready?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Hello, Drew and Josh. My name is Joe. You can use my name. And I thought I'd write with a recent win. I've had health anxiety for several years, thinking every ectopic beat would be my last, or that every off-balanced feeling would trigger my vertigo. For a few months now, I've had a handful of awful episodes of diminished hearing in one ear and dizziness that would eventually trigger said vertigo. An absolute nightmare for my health anxiety and my fixation with bodily sensations. My husband and I had a holiday to the UK coming up right after one of these episodes. I was incredibly scared and stressed, wondering how I could possibly take the long flight from Australia to the UK. Uh approximately a lot of hours of flying. Uh with without oh approximately 40,000 hours of flying without one of these attacks happening. I imagine spending the holiday in an NHS hospital. Instead, we had one of our best holidays ever, and we stuck to all our plans, including long walks in relatively remote parts of the Yorkshire Dales. I drank a delicious pint or two every day, which I was also apprehensive about, lest it set off my dizziness andor ectopics. And we went to a few gigs, including craft work. Within a week of our return, my ENT diagnosed me with many Air's disease. Instead of viewing this as a condition that will diminish my quality of life as it progresses, I've been thinking, wow, I just took a month-long overseas holiday with many airs disease and had a ball, and I'm confident I could do it again. Thank you for your podcast for encouraging listeners to be open to shifting our perspective on how we view living with disordered anxiety. It has helped me so much. Oh, I love that. How good was that? Insanely good, right? Like, I'm going anyway. Compassionate shift, cognitive reframes, not stuck. This is why we chose these did it anyways today. Is they're all focusing on process, not content. Yeah. Love it. And the nice compassionate reframe at the end. I like that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, which is yeah, imagine that. Like, oh, it that could have gone really bad. So this person gets a Meniere's uh diagnosis. That could have gone really bad if Craig the Critic was all over that. Like, see, I'm never gonna get better. I knew it, you're broke, like this is a problem. No, yeah, you know what? Look what I just did. So I could probably handle this, and I'm gonna figure this out. I love that. It's really great.
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah, I like that a lot.
SPEAKER_00So, what is the pro the process then, the mechanism? Like, people like, okay, fine, it's not the content. So, what do I do? Like, what is the process? How will you boil it down? What would you tell people?
SPEAKER_01I would say it's an attitude shift and a reminder that when you the doubt machine's off and you feel triggered and the symptoms are going, step one, my amygdala is activated. So now I can teach it the best I can. It's tricky. Now I can teach it that it isn't needed here. If I do everything that it wants, run to safety, avoid, seek 100% assurances, do all that, and I continue doing that, it's not going to switch off. I'm going to thank it. So instead, I'm going to show it. What's the best way to show the amygdala and the anxiety and the threat response? The show it that it's not needed is with your attention, your behavior. Yeah. But with that willingness and attitude to do it. Like, ah, I remember my homework now. I don't like this feeling. It makes you feel scared, but I am in control. I have got the power here to do what we do next. And that might mean doing stuff with jelly legs. It might mean going into situations that your anticipatory anxiety is telling you is going to go wrong. And you go on and you do that. And each time you do that, you strengthen a new neuropathway, the old one becomes a bit dusty, and you start to create a new association with anxiety itself, but also the confidence in your ability to deal with it. Yeah. That's the process, in my words. But you've got to do it kindly and compassionately, surrender to it, lose all of the old behaviors and habits and obsessions. That's the process.
SPEAKER_00I could not agree more. Like now, that mindfulness guy checking in, like, but how? Because everybody will say, Well, but how do I do that? Profine, but how? I believe in my bones, it starts with building an awareness of being able to watch that mechanism, that process fire up and play out. So somebody in the live chat just, you know, talking about a health pro I I have made up a problem in my head because something I heard, and now my health anxiety tells me that's going to be me. And I've been off and running, feel like I'm manifesting the problem, I'm obsessing. And she wants to know how do I just let this go? Well, I think part of it is recognize you have to be aware that, oh, the that mechanism that Josh was talking about has just turned on. So I had a thought or a sensation or an experience that has triggered an immense amount of discomfort, doubt, fear, uncertainty, vulnerability, whatever it is. That makes me want to. It feels like the safest thing to do, like to respond to this person in the chat, is to look at this fear, monitor it, check it. I have to upset, I have to fixate on it, I have to watch it. How am I supposed to not do that bravely? So in the end, if you can see the process is oh, look at that, there it is again. Remember six months ago, it was brain cancer, and today it's maybe my partner doesn't love me. Remember that? So like I just had an experience that I don't like, and that discomfort makes me want to fix this. But I'm now I gotta do what Josh is talking about. I gotta use my attention control to not do that because my brain needs to know when it predicts that as there's a nightmare coming, I have to show it that there's not, and then over time it will get the message. So but you gotta be aware. If if you focus on the content, no, no, no, no, but this health thing that I'm sure I'm manifesting, but that's so important, so I can't let that go. It has nothing to do with the specific thought about the health, it has to do with the process that you heard something scary, now you're scared, and now you're trying to save yourself, right? So yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, for sure. Um talk talking to the community. There have been any good data anyways recently.
SPEAKER_00We did have one that included a just a really cute picture of a dog. That's one of the things I love about the community, is people sharing their pet pictures. So I won't use this person's name because she didn't know we were gonna read it on the air, but she says just a couple of days ago, I took my fur baby for a walk today, and I walked further away from my home than I have been in a very long time. She's working on agoraphobia and uh yeah, I'm working on my agoraphobia. And despite Craig the Critic telling me that I shouldn't trigger my anxiety and intentionally bring on an adrenaline rush, as I have been very stressed due to life events and it might cause a never-ending panic attack that I won't be able to cope with, I did it anyway. Even though I didn't actually panic or really have any anxiety, I consider this a big win. Here's the good part. I consider this a big win as I was willing to experience the panic regardless. All right, like I knew that was gonna stop you dead in your tracks. I also felt the rush of happiness after, which has made my day. Although I do find my wins hard to accept some, except sometimes. I'm guessing that's part of the process. And she ended it with a picture of her dog who's and she said, Hunter says hi. Oh no, that's the wrong one. This one. I played, I played the terrible said fanfare, but you know what? That deserved that. I think it's a fanfare.
SPEAKER_01Well done. That's so good. The willingness bit was the best bit.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that was so people ask me all the time, like, so do I have to panic to recover? No, but you gotta be willing to.
SPEAKER_01And I was in that, she did it. Yeah, that was it. I I remember when I was first like, you know, desensitizing many years ago, and then like my brain would be like, and this is actually a good distinction between process and content. I'd go like go go on the train, a long train journey or the underground, and as I was going down the escalator, my brain would be like, What if you panic on that? Yeah, true. And I'm like, and I would say, Yeah, and I can show you I can do handle it. Yeah, and there was just an immediate like, yeah, I can handle it, it's just anxiety. Let's go.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Doing we have that chat about like, oh, you can't just say it's just anxiety. I used to I still say it now, like, because all the content wants you to go, you know, oh what if this, what if that, what if that? And I'm just like, oh, it's just anxiety talking shit. And then I and then I just go, yeah straight up. It's me dismissing the mechanism. Um, not just not stopping at how it's making me feel, but dismissing its importance and the willingness to have it throw everything at me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I agree. Uh there's another aspect of the content that sometimes we overlook, which is like the emotions about the emotions. Now they're valid. If if the struggle is making you angry or frustrated or sad on certain days, that that's okay. You have to express those. You gotta talk to a friend, talk to your therapist, cry it out. It doesn't matter. Like go for whatever helps you with process those emotions, you have to, they are part of the pro the process. So you have to recognize them. And we can act on those, I think that content. I'm really sad today because I've lost so much time to anxiety. Okay, well, you're just gonna have to be sad today. Like work out that sadness, express it any way that is healthy for you. You don't just try to, you know, get rid of it. But I think part of the problem where we focus that we could st get stuck focused on that content also. Like the fact that it is frustrating and flustering me is that okay, I I get it, it is, but if you keep returning to, I hate this, I hate this, I hate this, I hate this, I that's your only response, you are now stuck on the content about the content. Now you're thinking and feeling about your thinking and feeling, and that has you stuck. So at some point it's okay to say, I hate this, I want this over, it's ruining my life. Yeah, bring it. I'm here for all those emotions. But now what are you gonna do with it? Like at some point, we have to recognize that part of the process, like Josh described, is an action-based process. So, you know, one of those things. You can't just get stuck all the time on it, it was terrible, it was terrible, it was terrible, it was terrible. It was terrible. That's 100% right. But now what am I gonna do next? Oh, yeah. I mean, we're never gonna try to invalidate that experience. It is awful, it is scary, it feels like the end of the world. There is no doubt about that. We are never gonna try and tell you it doesn't feel that way. But like, okay, you have to express that for sure. But then what do I do next? Really important.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, very important. Uh, if people have their own did it anyways questions, if they want to record a voice note, where do they go?
SPEAKER_00Um, they could probably go to disorder.fm. I hear that's a pretty good website. Like, there's a little button there where you can record a voicemail to us, question or a did it anyway, or you could send us an email, that's all good.
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah, sounds good. Yeah, if you want to do that, if you want to send in some audio stuff as well, you can use the voicemail function and uh might be able to play you on the on the episodes, which we really like. Um, or if you just want to send them in, um you can do that. Or if you're part of the community app, you can if you put something in the did it anyway um section, you know, we'd like we read them all and we really enjoy them, might read them out on on here. Uh, but if not, thank you. Uh is there anything else you want to chat about today, Drew? I think process versus content. It's the process. Stop feeding the machine and the mechanism. But what about sunshine? But what about rain? Don't get pulled into Earth Song, it's just the process.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that was pretty poetic of you. Good job with that. No, I think we pretty much covered it. You know, like just take it with you today as best you can and try to apply it as best you can. And I don't know, we'll talk about something else on Friday, next Friday. Come on back and check us out.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, cool. Thank you very much. Thank you to all, and we'll catch you on Friday. Yeah, we're out.
